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nunia (
女 ,
114 ) |
地区:
美国, 新泽西 |
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时间:
2006-03-25 19:08:28, 来源:未名交友 |
标题:
'Loves me, Loves Me Not' |
Lucy: Someday, Charlie Brown, you're going to meet the girl of your dreams. Charlie Brown: Really ?! Lucy: Of course, and you're going to ask her to marry you. Charlie Brown: How nice... Lucy: Whaddya mean 'nice'? She's going to turn you down and marry someone else. This is very high on my list of 'things you might as well know."
I am smittened by this book 'Loves me, Loves Me Not - the Ethics of Unrequited Love' by Laura A. Smit. ( no pun intended :)
Part 1 Theology of Romance
Part 2 Interactions with Culture
Part 3 Rejecting, Pursuing and Recovering
I don't think i have ever fallen in love with a real person until my son was born. I've always been loving myself and my own imagination! But when my son comes along, he changed me so totally. My son is real. I am real. And his father remains as a real problem for me. But i feel like i can deal with him now without being terrorized by all non-sensical, non-ethical 'free love' garbages he and his ex-wife have been choked up by the decadent melting pot of American culture.
p. 171 If your imaginary contact with a person is better than the reality, then you are not in love with a person; you are in love with a daydream of your own creation. Loving a fantasy is the greatest barrier to loving a real person. Simone Weil explains that real love 'consents' to the independent freedom of other people, whereas our imagination often leads us to live in a fantasy world in which we script and control a person's words and actions. Love is attentive to another person as purely real who has an independent existence not oriented to us. Weil writes of the common experience of writing to a friend and anticipating his reply. "It is impossible that he should not reply by saying what I have said to myself in his name." Having scripted the response in advance and imagined a particular answer, we are startled and disturbed to encoutner the other's independence. We act as though other people 'owe us what we imagine they will give us." But obviously they do not owe us anything of the sort. We each have the tendency to believe that the world is about us, to assume that other people's actions are designed with us in mind, but only a little reflection shows us that this is not the case. It is especially difficult to let go of this "imaginary position as the center" in instances of romantic love, when we long for our love to be returned. Imagining what it would be like for the one we love to love us back is almost irresistible, but doing so ignores the real other person and replaces him or her with an imaginary person of our own invention. This is not love, since love means paying attention to the independent reality of the other person. In some sense, then, imagination is the opposite of love. Imagination is associated with possession, whereas love is associated with distance. Imagination is associated with illusion, love with reality.
Love needs reality. What is more terrible than the discovery that through a bodily appearance we have been loving an imaginary being. It is much more terrible than death, for death does not prevent the beloved from having lived. That is the punishment for having fed love on imagination.
Most of us have probably had the experience of being disillusioned after an infatuation, of realizing that the person with whom we thought we were in love was merely the product of our imagination and that the real person is a disappointment. Most of us have probably not identified our fantasies in such instances as criminal, but that is how Weil defines them. She claims that such imaginings are an offense against reality and that they poison us for real love, which she elsewehre defines as "belief in the existence of other human beings as such."
When you live in your imagination, you must live alone. No one else can join you there. If the person you love is only a product of your imagination, that unreal person can never love you back and your love will be forever unrequited. Even God cannot reach you in a world constructed out of your imagination, for God is completely real. The only place a creature can hide from God is someplace that is not real. In his fantasy The Great Divorce, C.S.Lewis theorizes that ultimately this is what hell is - an almost entirely imaginery place constructed out of the sterile and twisted imaginings of its inhabitants. Only the imaginary can be truly separated from God, and when we prefer the imaginary to the real, we prefer our own creation to God's creation. We make ourselves divine.
Let me be clear. Imagination is a good gift from God. We need imagination to dream of things that are not yet real and to bring them to fruition. Imagination is required to create, to teach, to explore, to build. But like all God's good gifts, imagination can be twisted. Because it is a powerful gift, it is powerfully dangerous when used incorrectly.
Our experiences of romantic love are intimately connected with our imagination, both for good and for bad. Most of us have had the experience of meeting a new person and wondering whether this person, still unknown, may be our future spouse. This wondering is an act of the imagination, and in moderation it is a good thing. The imagination is the only faculty we have for thinking about things that are not yet real but that may become real some day. Without such imaginative wondering, we cannot change our lives or move into a new way of living. Imagination is the necessary precursor to change. Imagination is also the way in which we check out our feelings and responses. Perhaps you have met someone interesting and attractive, but you find that you cannot imagine a life with this person. In our imagination, we paly out possibilities and discover what we really want and what we really hope for.
On the other hand, we indulge our imagination in destructive ways when we turn ohter people into characters in our own inner drama. Most of us have probably doen this at some point in our life. When imagination stops being a tool for wondering about real life and becomes instead an escape from real life, it is being used inappropriately. Some people construct elaborate imaginary worlds into which they escape each day, and often these worlds are populated by people who follows a script. ... [ How can we tell Christianity and Church doctrines aren't elaborate imaginary worlds into which believers escape world's plight each day by following scriptures in the BIBLE?...] There appears to be a conflict between two truths here. On the one hand, we all know the truth of the saying "Love is blind." People in love are often blind to the real nature of those with whom they are in love. On the other hand, there is another old saying, traceable to the twelfth-century monk Richard of St. Victor:"Only love sees" Irving Singer refers to such bestowal love, the love that sees the value and the glory of another person. It is a "valuative gesture" made by the imagination in which even the foibles of the one we love become somehow dear to us. The lover's glance fixes upon the sheer presence of the beloved. In that extreme condition sometimes called "falling in love," such attentiveness often approaches self-hypnosis...The lover's glance illuminates the beloved. He celebrates her as a living reality to which he attends. As in celebration of any sort, his response contributes something new and expressive. He introduces the woman into the world of his own imagination - as if, through some enchantment, she were indeed his work of art and only he could contemplate her infinite detail. As long as they intensify her presence, the lover will cherish even those features in the beloved that appraisal scorns. Does the lady have a facial blemish? To her lover it may be more fascinating than her baby blue eyes: it makes her stand out more distinctly in his memory. Does she have a sharp tongue and a biting temper? her love may come to relish these traits, not generally but in this particular woman. They make the image of her vivid and compelling...They show him with unmistakable clarity what she is.
Singer goes so far as to define love as "a subspecies of imagination." Singer appears to believe that the lover's positive vision of the beloved is to some extent the lover's creation. I would argue that if the vision is generated by the lover, then this is a case of infatuation, not love. But if the vision is a result of lover paying close attention to the reality of the other person in order to see and draw forth the wonder and the glory that God has placed there, then such love reflects God's love for us. God creates the goodness of the particular person, which love then enables the lover to see.
This is the sort of love that is celebrated in the Song of Solomon. The bride says of herself, "I am a rose of Sharon, a lily of the valleys" (2:1), describing herself in terms of common flowers that grow in abundance in the land of Israel. She sees herslef as commonplace, indistinguishable from any other young woman. But her bridegroom replies, "As a lyly among brambles, so is my love among maidens." (2:2). She is the one woman to whom he is giving all his loving attention, and so she stands out for him as unique and marvelous. His love does not create her beauty; rather, his love draws out the beauty that is already there. ... People, however, are a mixture of actuality and potentiality, being and becoming. Some of what God has designed us to be is already actual, but most is not. Since our essential nature is not fully actualized, we have not yet come into our own. To see another person's full beauty requires seeing not only what is actual but also what is potential - what that person may become. Seeing such potential requires imagination, since it cannot be directly experienced as actual or real. An example of such vision is the way parent loo at their children...
Clearly, there is a danger of imagining something illusory rather than a potential reality. Consider, for instance, parents who imagine their own frustrated aspirations fulfilled in their children. Such children may wish their parents had less imagination. The key seems to be the combination of imagination and love. Williams would agree that love celebrates another's independence. Therefore, loving imagination never seeks to use a person as an extension of ourselves but rather sees the potential of the other's essence realized. This ability to imagine the beauty that is coming as well as the beauty that is present is activated by love and made possible by imagination. Love lets us see one another as we may someday be. Love gives us insight into the divine spark in another. A loving vision sees potentiality fully actualized.
ps For those members who pride themselves with dead ears to foreign
tongues, i apologize for my marathon quotation out of nobody's love
affair. At least, I choose this club for my preaching after some
serious reality check-ups.
※ 最后修改者:nunia, 修改于:2006-03-27 18:07:00 ※
※ 来源:Unknown Friends - 未名交友 http://us.jiaoyou8.com ※
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时间:
2006-03-26 15:23:40, 来源:未名交友 |
标题:
Re: "Loves me loves me not" |
When was the book written? It gives the impression
that it was written before the contemporary theories of psychology were
found. Contemporary social psychology believes most romantic loves are
composed of passionate love and compassionate love. The passionate love
draw inspiration from attraction and imagination, then harvest into the
compassionate love along a learning curve to learn to respect, protect, cherish
and stand by one another with a life long devotion in reality.
As a well known psychology theory by B.F.Skiner, learning is a function of
positive and negative reinforcement in one's environment. Hamsters learn
to press the bars because they are rewarded with food. Humans learn what
to expect from a relationship as a result of positive or negative social and
interpersonal interactions. Mutual respects are achieved and boundaries
are built to enable a healthy relationship to grow in the case of an exclusive
relationship. Unilateral respects and boundaries are formed in the
ancient Oriental courts inhabited by 3000 courtesans and their eunuchs even the
Emperor has his favorites from time to time. Expectations, rules
and boundaries have to vary from case to case. It remains unknown how long
the practice of polygamy will continue to last in the civilized world. The more pressing issue is will the practice of marriage sustain the human race?
When a dream love does not realize into reality, one might want to ask
1. if there are fertile soil in one's hassle-free environment for the
flower of love to grow healthily?
2. what's the difference between a plant that have been requiring soil
and water and a plant that will require soil and water going forward if not
immediately? (Speaking of illusions. :)) An analogy would be what is the
difference between saying "I love you" once a week and saying
"I love you" 20 times a day between a devoted couple.
3. if the flower's roots have ever been put into soil or still wrapped in
the plastic wrappings from the supermarket? How will the imagination translate /
transcend into reality then? Who truly benefits and who truly loses from the
suspended stage of illusion?
4. if you are watering the plastic bag or the plant itself each day?
Something actually happened is called the facts/ history with real people, real
names, real personal profiles, real places, and real life experience in real
time. On the other hand, something you imagined out of fake
pictures, style watches, and posts ZTed on line is call
imagination. In the reality, changing the textbook of history with
one's imagination is called lying. In one's imaginary world, changing one's
imagination about an imaginary monkey with one's imagination is called wild
imagination. There are times when artists and writers choose to live in the
imaginary world to explore their creativity. Therefore we do prefer our
imagination to God's creation when it's the easy escape from reality.
For me, a drink is a good drink if it gets you drunk. A love is a
good one if one has no regret and no debt to pay. And life is
good, so is everyone else.
※ 最后修改者:blackmagicmm, 修改于:2006-03-26 15:32:50 ※
※ 来源:Unknown Friends - 未名交友 http://us.jiaoyou8.com ※
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nunia (
女 ,
114 )
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地区:
美国, 新泽西 |
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时间:
2006-03-26 15:53:58, 来源:未名交友 |
标题:
Re: "Loves me loves me not" |
"the contemporary theories of psychology were
found" well, maybe contemporary theories of psychology and your own psychic being are already there before they were 'found' by other men.
if you choose psychology as your primal field of investigation towards the ultimate concerns on wellbeing of humankind, i recommend two authoritive voices: Paul Tillich 'theology of culture' & Jean-francois Lyotard 'Libidinal economy'.
This particular book by Laura A. Smit is published in 2005. Laura holds Ph.D from Boston University, dean of the chapel and assistant professor of theology at Calvin college.
Personally, i consider 'the contemporary theories of psychology' a step back from explaining away the unity of mankind and its Creator.
"The more pressing issue is will the practice of marriage sustain the human race? ". What options do we have for raising our children? I abhor the fact that in US, , State power regularly inserts itself as the defacto resolution when father and mother in a household failed to protect the children.
"For me, a drink is a good drink if it gets you drunk. A love is a
good one if one has no regret and no debt to pay. And life is
good, so is everyone else."
Everyone has goodness in oneself but in modern world, how to preserve our good life is increasingly more difficult task for a minority of people who forsake their own happiness in order to dwell with blessedness and suffering for one another's sake. This sacrificial devotion is our lost dream.
※ 最后修改者:nunia, 修改于:2006-03-26 16:32:07 ※
※ 来源:Unknown Friends - 未名交友 http://us.jiaoyou8.com ※
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时间:
2006-03-26 19:42:06, 来源:未名交友 |
标题:
Re: "Loves me loves me not" |
I'm not sure what your arguments are in reference to mine. When one looks at the mountain from the bird's eye, the mountain could be a round shaped dot. The mountain becomes a rectangle if not a triangle for a galloping horse. So forget about the modern theories of psychology then. When a lie is repeated for many times, it becomes the truth. Crappie yet crafty words can easily twist the pleasant feelings into bleeding wounds with the art of hypnosis. That's why I don't like to communicate with words on line. The heart feels sad if not mean when it's a must to study the art of words along with the art of hypnosis 20 hours a day. The written language is cheap because there are things much more valuable in life than the dubious language. A friend once told me what makes a man a man is his confidence along with his talent. It took me years to understand this. A billionaire will not take a job for $150/hr, even though it's good money for most of us. We will. If he only has 2 options, he might choose to play in a band for $50/ hour because he likes to play music. We won't and we don't usually have the talent. Money is irrelevant to him at this scale, very much in a way like playing with language is irrelevant to us. So his talent and confidence shine. People are different and different people are most happy with different types of relationships ranging from monogamy to polygamy to promiscuity, and with different types of partners ranging from the babysitter to the dancer, from the hooker to the painter, with a few having the talent or the confidence to realize their dreams. I'm sure the readings you recommend are sophisticated and comprehensive. Thank you so much for sharing.
※ 最后修改者:blackmagicmm, 修改于:2006-03-26 19:55:43 ※
※ 来源:Unknown Friends - 未名交友 http://us.jiaoyou8.com ※
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nunia (
女 ,
114 )
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地区:
美国, 新泽西 |
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时间:
2006-03-26 22:10:10, 来源:未名交友 |
标题:
Re: "Loves me loves me not" |
i was hoping to see magic sparks oozing out from blackmagicmm. I must be blind or something.
i find other interesting counter-points from Northrop Frye's 'The Myth of Deliverance - reflections on Shakespeare's problem comedies'.
This is from its introduction by A.C.Hamilton.
Deliverance, being synonymous with 'expanded energy and freedom', implies a heightened consciousness by which one may actively - that is, imaginatively - shape reality rather than remain passively dominated by it. Instead of salvation from the world, however, there is renewed creative life in it. Frye's argument is one that he had learned from Blake; as expressed in his first book, Fearful Symmetry: "imagination creates reality, and as desire is a part of imagination, the world we desire is more real than the world we passively accept'. By the end of Measure for Measure and All's Well That Ends Well, there is ' a sense of energies released by forgiveness and reconciliation, where Eros triumphs over Nomos or law, by evading what is frustrating or absurd in law and fulfilling what is essential for social survival' (The Myth of Deliverance 61); and by the end of Troilus and Cressida, the pseudo-reality it exposes 'is the starting point of any genuine myth of deliverance'.
The Myth of Deliverance is Frye's third book on Shakespear's plays and appropriately it treats the three plays that had been dubbed 'problem comedies' chiefly because their unromantic realism suggests a direct relation to ordinary human experience in constrast to the earlier romantic comedies and the final romances, which mediate that experience through the experience of other literature.... (skip, skip no magic bullets....) In early lecture on comedy, Frye concludes that 'tragedy is really implicit or uncompleted comedy,' and that 'comedy contains a potential tragedy within itself'. Being rooted in history, tragedy reveals the essential human condition: life as it is and must be, which is inescapable except through death. Being rooted in human desire, and therefore in a desire for freedom, comedy uses all the resources of art to deliver the young lovers from what seems inescapable so that by the end it may be said of them - to use the traditional formula - 'they lived happily ever after.' .... (happily ever after happens after a virtuous death...) ps. 'Measure for Measure', 'All's Well That Ends Well' & 'Troilus and Cressida' are dubbed here as 'problem comedies' (tbc...)
※ 最后修改者:nunia, 修改于:2006-03-26 23:57:41 ※
※ 来源:Unknown Friends - 未名交友 http://us.jiaoyou8.com ※
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nunia (
女 ,
114 )
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地区:
美国, 新泽西 |
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时间:
2006-03-27 13:11:53, 来源:未名交友 |
标题:
Re: movie 'Hitch' |
movie 'Hitch' starring Will Smith expressed your vein of 'falling in love'. The movie is quite entertaining. higly recommend.
※ 来源:Unknown Friends - 未名交友 http://us.jiaoyou8.com ※
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nunia (
女 ,
114 )
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地区:
美国, 新泽西 |
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时间:
2006-03-27 17:43:40, 来源:未名交友 |
标题:
Re: movie - 'Harvie Krumpet' |
when harry meet sally is too old! who haven't seen it?
'Harvie Krumpet' is the new romantic clip from Australia by Adam Eliot. check it out.
I'll have to give you a list of oldie romantic films later...
※ 来源:Unknown Friends - 未名交友 http://us.jiaoyou8.com ※
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